Buy Where You Shop
by Tim O'Reilly
May 2003
Like all technology revolutions, the Internet is profoundly disruptive. For all its promise, it can destroy old ways of life before we realize the value of what we're losing. Part of the process of integrating new technology is developing social norms for its proper use. We have much to learn about how to use the Internet properly--how to avoid abuses such as spam, invasions of privacy, attempts by large corporations to control how we use technology, and the like. But there's also a more humble area of disruption that I'd like to bring to your attention. Let me start with a story.
A few months ago, I was talking with one of my most loyal retail customers, a specialty computer bookstore in Massachusetts. "We survived the chains, and we survived Amazon," he said, "but I don't know if we're going to survive the online discounters. People come in here all the time, browse through the books on display, and then tell me as they leave that they can get a better price online."
Now, you might say, as the Hawaiian proverb notes, no one promised us tomorrow. Businesses, like individuals and species, must adapt or die. And if the Internet is bad for small, local retailers, it's good for the online resellers and it's good for customers, right?
But think a little more deeply, and you realize that my friend wasn't complaining that people were buying books elsewhere. He was complaining that people were taking a service from him--browsing the books in his store--and then buying elsewhere. There's a world of difference between those two statements. Online shopping is terrific: you can get detailed product information, recommendations from other customers, make a choice, and have the product delivered right to your door. But if you aren't satisfied with the online shopping experience, you want to look at the physical product, for example browsing through a book in the store, you owe it to the retailer--and to yourself--to buy it there, rather than going home and saving a few dollars by ordering it online.
Think about it for a minute: the retailer pays rent, orders and stocks the product, pays salespeople. You take advantage of all those services, and then give your money to someone else who can give you a better price because they don't incur the cost of those services you just used. Not only is this unfair; it's short-sighted, because it will only be so long before that retailer closes his or her doors, and you can no longer make use of those services you enjoy.
If you like shopping in bookstores, remember this: many independent booksellers are on the ropes. (One store owner we know resorts to ordering books on personal credit cards when she is put on credit hold by publishers because she can't pay her bills.) Even in the chains, computer book sections are in danger of shrinking in favor of other sections where sales are more robust. If you value the bookstore experience, my advice is this: buy where you shop. I buy lots of books online. I read about them on a blog or a mailing list, and buy with one click. But when I shop for books in bookstores, I buy them there, and so should you. Don't just look for the best price. Look for the best value. And if that value, for you, includes the ability to page through a book, support your local bookseller.
This story is the tip of an iceberg, of course. As with the unintended consequences of previous revolutions (pollution from automobiles and industrialization, for instance), it takes a strenuous forethought to make sure we don't inadvertently damage parts of our world that we take for granted. It's easy to get fired up about large technical, social, and political issues, but the future we create is even more the result of small decisions we make every day.
Showing messages 1 through 33 of 33.
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A tech booksellers opinion on having stock, new releaases, pricing and exclusivity
2005-07-26 12:44:03 kateatthattechnicalbookstore.com [Reply | View]
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A tech booksellers opinion on having stock, new releaases, pricing and exclusivity
2005-07-26 13:48:34 Tim O'Reilly |
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Kate,
I completely agree with your comment that it costs a lot to keep books in stock -- that was the whole point of my "buy where you shop" piece. Being able to walk around a store and look at books before buying them is a service that costs a retailer a lot to deliver, and the customer ought to be willing to pay for it.
I think you're muddying the water, though, by bringing in the Amazon exclusive subscription window for Make. That may stick in the craw of brick and mortar booksellers, but we actually think it doesn't hurt you as much overall as you might think. Here's why:
1. We are trying to position Make as a long-term keeper, not just as a magazine that disappears from the newsstand. So far, the results demonstrate that we were right. Issue 1 is still selling strongly -- as subscription starts move to issue 2, and now issue 3, people go back to buy the previous issues as a book. The fact that Make back issues have been book bestsellers demonstrates the validity of that strategy.
2. Amazon committed a *lot* of marketing support in return for that exclusive. That has helped to establish the magazine as a success out of the gate, which ultimately helps everyone. What's more, Amazon was willing to commit to selling Make as both a magazine and a book, which was cental to our long term strategy. That willingness allowed us to bring other major players to the same position, which has enabled the long term book opportunity for everyone.
3. The Amazon exclusive starts ticking as soon as the issue is released, which is the day Make comes back from the printer. Half of the thirty day exclusive is likely over before you'd likely have the issue in your store.
This decision with Make was in the best interest of growing the success of the product. The fact that Make has grown so fast out of the gate is a sign that we made the right decision. Overall, we think the plans we've made to help Make succeed are good for booksellers. -
A tech booksellers opinion on having stock, new releaases, pricing and exclusivity
2005-07-27 13:51:04 kateatthattechnicalbookstore.com [Reply | View]
Thank you Tim for responding. O'Reilly Media, out of all of the publishers, have been the most kind to us in our struggle to stay in business. When we first called about the exclusivity on Make we weren't turned away OR given a pat answer but were compensated and treated like an "Amazon" rather than a 1,600 sq.ft. indy bookstore on the rocks! :)
You can imagine though it was just embarrasing for us.
I also understand that a store like ours may not have the broad reach Amazon has nor the abilities for subscription services.
My main point was to educate the customers that as an independent there are many reasons why things are the way they are and that often is the case that we just don't have control. We want stock, but money is tight. We want the new releases just as quick but a 3 book order doesn't stand a chance against a 10,000+ book order in expediance. We want to discount but can't compete with a online retailer who most likely makes NO money.
We are proud to sell your books and very happy with O'Reilly. You folks send us new releases hot off the press and provide cute :) animals to decorate our store!
Most of my comments are in regards to other publishers that bloggers might buy.
Just you responding so quickly shows your support for us and reinforces our importance in the book world. I am just nervous for my family and may have flown off the handle. My Mom and Dad have been selling technical books since the 70's and you can imagine as they approach the retirement age with our situation being so unstable, that every little thing is magnified by our fear of having to close shop and apply for regular day jobs.
We appreciate everything you do for us Tim and your staff responded to us as you would have (and did here) regarding Make.
Best of luck and keep the good books coming!
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A tech booksellers opinion on having stock, new releaases, pricing and exclusivity
2005-07-27 21:31:52 Tim O'Reilly |
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Kate, I really understand where you're coming from. It's great to see you getting involved in your parents' business. It's one of the best technical bookstores there is, and I hope that we're still working together to get books to the people on the cutting edge till I'm having this conversation with YOUR kids.
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Thanks Tim
2004-01-12 09:12:38 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
As an on-line store that competes with the "big Guys" (until their stock prices shrivel up and they have to close their doors) I appreciate your comments and only hope that people will listen. We like your books and your people even better.
You like us compete in a mad world!
Thanks!
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Sales must be earned
2004-01-09 16:52:08 scottellsworth [Reply | View]
Howdy, Tim.
I have bought most of my tech books online, partially because of discounts, but more often for the reviews. Bookstores, because they own the stock, rarely have any indication of what the purchasers thought of the books. To get that kind of feedback, I have to go online, and once there, well, it is often easier to just buy from where I am.
A deeper issue, though, is the age of stock. Bookstores near me are very bad about keeping their stock up to date, or getting in the latest and greatest. Amazon and B&N, on the other hand, note upcoming editions. Thus, if I spot the fourth edition of a title on the shelf, I have to drop by somebody's website, just to see if there is a more recent version out there that applies to my task.
So, how can a brick and mortar store fight back? Primarily by providing a service that earns the sales. The Tattered Cover has topic managers that actually know what stock is current, and that keep tabs on what is up and coming. Barnes and Noble should consider linking their online reviews to the brick and mortar store, then hyping it. Having sales staff that I want to talk to might help - I pay $4 a cup for Starbucks lattes because I like the people there. A bookstore can earn business the same way.
This is not terribly cheap, but it is needed for a brick and mortar store to justify its usually higher prices.
Scott
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I research online and purchase from brick and mortar
2003-12-14 11:28:29 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I find I do my research online, and then I go to a Brick and Mortar store to see what I am planning on buying, and complete the sale. I find that avoiding shipping costs and getting the book I want NOW makes online shopping less attractive.
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I research online and purchase from brick and mortar
2003-12-31 01:24:21 jwenting [Reply | View]
I often do that too IF there is a local (within reasonable distance) store where they will have it in stock or can get it quickly (more quickly that is than I could get it shipped from for example Amazon).
Problem is the nearest English language and computer specialised bookstores are over an hour away from where I live by train and bus (or similar by car) and the trip over and back would cost me more than Amazon charges in shipping fees...
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not just books...
2003-11-25 06:56:59 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
It's just about everything that can be purchased online.
I own several aquariums, it's getting almost impossible to get good supplies for them as it's no longer profitable to stock them (just get them online right? But what if you need support on a $200 pump right now instead of having to wait 3 weeks for shipping while your fish die?).
As an avid amateur photographer I see camera stores going slowly under.
Just about anything can be purchased more cheaply online and people are indeed doing the same with photographic equipment as you describe about bookstores.
Except here the damage is worse and more immediate. If I want to see and compare equipment in a store I'm tying up their staff directly because they're demonstrating the stuff to me. In that interval a real customer might leave because there's noone to help them...
But it is sometimes hard I agree. With prices online being often 30-40% lower than in stores (and in severe cases over 50% lower) stores can't compete anymore.
I've spoken about this with several storeowners. They say openly that the prices they are charged by importers and manufacturers are often higher than the prices online stores charge to end users.
Add the store's markup (salestax here is included on items purchased online as well) and the situation becomes impossible for the independent store owners.
For example, at one point I was offered online an expensive lens for €1800 (including shipping).
The only local supplier after a big discount and tradein of several hundred Euro worth of old equipment was able to go down to no less than €2500.
I purchased neither item, instead opting for an alternative that the store could offer at a decent price...
With books (and especially computer books) the differences are often similar (especially with US imports where the prices in Euros often in no way reflect the dollar price).
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Buying Online
2003-11-11 11:36:45 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
What an important message, whether about books or any other product where we like to take advantage of the opportunity to truly 'shop' before we buy. Thanks, Tim!
Carla Evans
Ft. Worth, TX
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Value Beyond Price
2003-11-04 14:47:36 dgodgo [Reply | View]
Often times I do not know exactly which book I'm looking for; a resource such as SoftPro is truly wonderful. I can walk in the Boulder store, say "I need a good book on X", where X can be anything from Oracle references to obscure T-carrier protocols, and the people there know what I'm asking... look at a selection of books, then walk out of the store with the best book for my needs in my hands - this is a great service and a real time saver.
With support and service like that, what's a few bucks one way or another? We should do all that we can to reduce the McPerson, 'walmartization' of our world - and ensure that such knowledgeable stores, people, and services are around in the future.
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I agree, in theory, but...
2003-10-07 09:55:22 saj951 [Reply | View]
I've been a software engineer for over 24 years. Those of you, like me, know that continued skill upgrade is key to survivial. We buy books - lots of them. And most of them are obsolete within 12 - 18 months. Technical books are expensive - VERY expensive, and far more so than they've ever needed to be. One of the my biggest gripes has always been that I shouldn't be paying $75.00 for a paperback tech book that's 200 pages long. Sorry, but tech books have been a gold mine to publishers every since we emerged from the mainframe - and engineers have spent a fortune on them. I, for one, love Softpro - I can't even walk past the door for less than $100.00. And I do enjoy browsing. But, generally, I know what I need to get without going into a store and, the bottom line is, I'm going to buy it at the cheapest price I can get it at because it's still outrageously over-priced. If I go into Softpro and pick up a book I'm not familiar with, flip through it, and decide it's a good book to pick up, I buy it there - I found it there and used their facilities - I'll pay the premium. But, when I know I need a specific technology, I'm going online. We're not, in many cases, talking about 1 or 2 dollar differences - in many cases we're talking 8 - 12 dollars difference and more. Maybe that's not much to you, but given the fact that I have to do this some 12 - 20 times a year, depending on project, I simply can't ignore that. Maybe the book stores should start getting on the publishers to get a bit more realisting in their pricing so that they could compete more effectively with the online giants - O'Reilly included. You guys are prolific - your books are generally good though they generally contain too much side material. If you took any one of your Java books, tooks out the "side" material that really isn't relevant to the topic, and cut the prices by about 25%, you'd probably put the stores in a position to better compete. Until then, you don't get a better selection, review set or price, in my experience, than Amazon.com. I hate to say it - it sounds cold and I'm really not that way, but, I'll take Amazon over Softpro any day of the week. It's just too expensive in this day and age to be paying those premium prices.
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As a Former Employee of Borders...
2003-08-12 11:02:28 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I've seen many people leafing through the books and then leaving them in the cafe to go to ruin. The problem with tech books is that some of them have a short life span, so I can see why someone would want to go through it and choose to purchase it cheaper online.
I used to purchase them in the store with my employee discount. Sometimes what I would buy would be a book that has a little wear due to people looking through it. I've gotten the same result from supposedly "new" books from Amazon.
The fact that the store even lets employees get discounts on it suggests that the markup is too high. The brick and mortar stores need to come down a little bit on the price if they want to compete, at least give a discount equal to the amount of sales tax.
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Buy where you shop
2003-08-05 11:45:38 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I mourn the loss of the many, many independent
bookstores of my youth.
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Shop bricks 'n mortar, buy online from same chain
2003-07-31 21:54:11 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Tim,
I recently read your editorial in the Spring 2003 O'Reilly catalog regarding buying books where you shop. It was thought provoking and I agree with the point you were making.
I would like to solicit your thoughts on a common practice of mine: I will go to my local Borders bookstore, browse, then go to Borders.com (I know, they're teamed up with Amazon now; you could substitute Barnes & Noble for sake of example) and order the book(s). The main point here is that I buy at the online store of the brick and mortar bookstore I visited. In my case, that is almost always Borders (since they use Unix) as opposed to Barnes and Noble (which uses Windows). Please also note that I do not purchase online exclusively; more often than not my wife and I walk out of Borders with something under our arm.
Why do I frequently buy online after shopping at the local bookstore? Two main reasons. First, I save significant money because the book is typically discounted online, I don't have to pay sales tax, and I buy enough to get free shipping. Second, I get to thumb my nose at the idiots in the Tennessee State Legislature who want to impose a repressive 9.25% sales tax on me because they're too stupid (and cowardly) to fix our tax system.
What I'd like your thoughts on, since I don't have a lot of knowledge about the publishing industry, is am I really harming Borders (or Barnes and Noble) by this practice? I would think that the major chains would realize that I'm not the only one doing this and therefore "subsidize" the brick and mortars with the profits from the online store. Am I wrong about that?
I certainly see how I would be harming a local Mom and Pop bookstore if I browsed there, then went to Amazon.com to buy, but I don't see how buying at the online store of the brick and mortar I browsed at harms them. Please enlighten me if I'm wrong...
Kevin Buterbaugh - Systems Engineer -
Shop bricks 'n mortar, buy online from same chain
2003-08-01 08:23:39 Tim O'Reilly |
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I'd say that this is a fair compromise on the issues I raise. You're making sure to patronize the store whose services you use, but choosing their lowest cost channel. This seems entirely legitimate to me. -
Shop bricks 'n mortar, buy online from same chain
2003-11-25 06:41:37 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
It's not a good compromise at all.
Though you do indeed support their business, the store itself will end up in the red and in the end be closed or scaled back to sell other things only.
Or do you make a note in the comments field on your online order that you noticed the book in their real store in XXXXX and liked it so much (and then hope someone actually takes note of that)?
The net effect is still that physical stores are loosing business due to web orders, a loss that will translate into reduced floorspace and manpower and in the end closure of those physical stores.
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Value of customer service
2003-07-02 14:26:28 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I grew up in a retail store with my family. I learned the value of "customer service" and see so much of it missing today. I agree with your premise of buying where you shop but only if they deserve your business. I went to buy a computer book at full price recently at Borders. The cashier did not say hello, goodby, thank you, or even manage to look at me during the entire transaction. I don't mind spending the money but I want the service to go along with it. Otherwise, buying online is much easier and quicker and I even get a thank you email!
Henry Fleischman -
Value of customer service
2003-07-04 09:01:52 Tim O'Reilly |
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No question. People really don't realize how much the personal contact matters. But I do want to say that the article was inspired by conversations with stores that do impeccable customer service. The owners of most of the tech independents are in the store, knowledgeable, talking to customers all the time. And still people shop there, then go off to buy online for the discount!
As to the chains, it's a tough situation for them. Sales decline, so it's harder for them to stay interested in an area, so they hire people with less and less skill. And of course, it's always harder to scale something to that size and keep the quality up. The people in the original Borders stores were just like the people at the independents. And the founders of B&N still have enormous passion for the business and the customer. But building a truly customer-centric culture at a company is hard.
I struggle with that at O'Reilly, reminding people all the time that engagement matters. I figure if I have the time to respond to random emails and proposals, have an occasional blog, and answer talkbacks on articles, other people ought to have time too. But it's hard to make it part of everyone's regular practice.
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Price matters, sometimes
2003-06-19 15:00:04 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Being blind the whole issue of browsing through bookstores doesn't apply (but I 100% agree with the article). However, I do use a bookstore when I want to pay by cash, or if I want the book immediately (I guess you could consider these services of the store).
Yesterday I went to the local Waterstones to buy an O'Reilly CD bookshelf - I wanted it before I went on holiday. But in this case the store was selling the book for £30 more than Amazon. For the first time in my life I said "no thanks" and bought it on Amazon.
This set me off thinking that the price difference depends on how expensive the book is. For most computer science books (costing about £30-£40) you're only paying about £5 for the convenience of shopping in a store. This, I am willing to pay. For non-technical books you only pay £2 or £3 more than Amazon, so I don't even think twice about buying in a store.
So, while I agree with the article, there's a bit of a moral dilemma when the amount you save is substancial. -
Price matters, sometimes
2003-07-04 09:07:55 Tim O'Reilly |
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I don't disagree that sometimes there's "a bit of a moral dilemma" although I think it's less of a moral dilemma and more of a practical one. The question you have to ask yourself is if you'd miss the brick and mortar retailer more than you'd miss the extra dollars. And of course, you can weigh how much of a difference you think your dollars will make, and how big the spread is, and make different decisions at different times based on that calculus.
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Browsing as a service
2003-06-17 10:35:38 yabdi [Reply | View]
Instead of having people pay more money for books they can buy cheaper online, Bookstore owners should rethink their business model.
Personally, I think they should move from a model of selling books to a model where they become a hybrid of coffee house+library+learning center with yearly membership fees(ala Gym membership) or $10 for 3 hours (like going to the movies). I buy a lot of computer books and I can't afford to pay the full price $60 or more when I can get 30% off with free shipping.
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I bought my first O'Reilly book at Softpro
2003-05-31 20:49:07 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
in Burlington
Using C on the UNIX System. Spiral binding...
In those days, going to that store was usually how I found out what titles existed on a particular topic.
I can pretty much always find what I'm looking for there, and if I'm in a hurry, the staff will point me to exactly where it is on the shelves. I still discover new titles I hadn't known about as I'm browsing. And occasionally my browsing leads me to forego a title that really looked good from it's cover, but just wasn't what I needed when I looked inside. Other times I'll find which author of a Java networking book has addressed a problem very similar to something I need to do.
As I look at my bookshelves, I would estimate 85-90% of the books are from Softpro -
I bought my first O'Reilly book at Softpro
2003-07-18 13:47:13 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
That's the same store where my own O'Reilly books are mostly from too (I have 2 or 3 from a local B&N where I first disovered O'Reilly years ago). A friend showed me SoftPro (the Burlington, MA store) last year, I joined the "Team O'Reilly" program there, and I've bought enough books to already have several free ones from that program. All the books were discounted 20% off the top, and the employees there (sometimes the store owner is there too) are really knowledgeable about what they stock. Although I haven't been able to attend one yet, the store also hosts live talks by many of the authors whose books they carry.
I would never get this kind of service and enjoyable shopping experience online, and I don't think I've paid much more for my books there than Amazon was selling them for. Mostly, I love knowing I'm supporting an "indie" business which cares about its offerings and its customers.
I realize not everyone is fortunate to have a store like this close by, but I agree, if you can get in there to browse, and they have what you need, keep them in business and make the purchase there too.
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Long-term consequences
2003-05-27 09:55:47 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
It's quite true that the bookstore owners should not have to subsidize the browsing and selection process of people who have no intention of actually buying those books from the stores. It reminds me of an observation made by Henry Hazlitt, in his classic "Economics in One Lesson": A key to correct economic analysis is thinking through the long-term and unintended consequences of all actions in the marketplace.
Another way in which the brick-and-mortar booksellers are hurt, is the damage done to technical books when they are used repeatedly as reference books by techies seeking answers to questions, or students spreading them out on the floors and doing their homework. Even worse is the practice of slitting open the plastic sleeves in the back, extracting the CD-ROMs, and burning a copy using their laptop computers. A similar practice is actually stealing the CD (which alone does not have any sort of theft-deterrence magnetic tag). Just the other day I opened up a large technical book at Bookstar, flipped open the back cover to see if the book had an accompanying CD, and found the sleeve to be empty.
Let's hope that owners of bookstores do not have to resort to closing their doors to get the message across to folks who are taking them for granted.
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Use it or lose it
2003-05-25 03:16:17 mted19 [Reply | View]
Maybe we need to change our attitude to buying certain things. If you use a bookstore as a library, then it's not a store, it's a service. Every so often you should pay for that service by buying a book. If you use the reviews on Amazon a lot, or use the wish list service to keep track of everything you need to read, then every so often you should buy from them.
You could also say that smaller local stores offer a service just by their existance, just by being convenient and offering you a choice. Every so often, you should buy from them. You shouldn't feel obliged to buy from every store you ever browse in. But when you cross that line of using them as a service, and wanting them to continue providing that service, you should be prepared to pay a little towards that.
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Responsible browsing
2003-05-23 05:47:09 mariox19@mac.com [Reply | View]
I see people bringing their laptops to the coffee tables at Barnes & Nobles and pulling computer books off the shelves. Never mind writing term papers, these people are obviously coding, which is just unconscionable.
But "extreme browsing" is often a way of gaining a general education through gleaning. I've spent many hours browsing, leafing through computer books on many topics in an effort to gain an overview of programming and computer science. (I'm a self-taught hobbyist who has purchased hundreds of dollars worth of books in the last two years from bookstores.)
Am I supposed to buy books on assembly programming, networking in C, Smalltalk, operating systems and so forth, when I have no interest, currently, in using that knowledge in my programming? I put what I can into my brain, knowing that years from now I may have an interest in it and the experience to begin to study advanced topics. The only way I will be able to judge that, though, is by surveying the vast material now.
I am careful and respectful in my handling of books, and find myself straightening the shelves. I'm sure there are many others who act the same.
The average computer book is running around $40. There is no way I could buy every book without searching for online bargains. By the time I have decided to purchase a book, I have leafed through it in a bookstore and read reader reviews from one or more online booksellers.
Who should get the sale?
The market is getting complicated, and where loyalty should lie is not as clear as you make it seem, I'm afraid.
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Book Stores
2003-05-22 09:28:52 rkovars [Reply | View]
I enjoyed reading your article about buying where you browse. I live in the Northeast United States, a rather tech savy area.
I agree that a bookstore is not a library. I too see far too many people 'lounging' in bookstores. It is one thing to go tothe bookstore to browse because you are killing time or out shopping. It is quite another to use it as a resource without giving anything back.
There is also something to be said about the large chain vs the small independant. I have been frequenting a small independant store in my area. I try to get anything I can from them. They are kind curteous and responsive to my needs. They continually listen to the input to improve the store. They get my vote over the big stores any day. One thing I can say is that anyone who shrugs and tells me they rely on corporate for their business would lose a customer.
I think in a situation like this you have to think about the author too. Sometimes that good deal online is too good to be true and the author is left out of the loop. Publishing is a strange and wild game.
The bottom line to any of this, I think, is that if we want to see more books on the shelves, we have to pony up for the privelage.
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The situation in Singapore
2003-05-17 07:16:08 Wei-Meng Lee |
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The situation in Singapore is slightly different. In Singapore, because of its size a
bookstore is always within half-an-hour drive (on average) away. We have a couple of computer bookstores which are well-stocked with computer books and I am always able to get what I want from one particular computer bookstore. My observation is that computer people tend to avoid bigger chains like Borders due to its straight conversion from US dollar to Sing dollar. We could get a better bargain through the computer bookstores as they get their books from a local distributor, which is always able to give a better price.
Online bookstores has never really taken off in Singapore. A couple of businesses have gone online and failed miserably. This is not surprising since finding a bookstore is really easy in Singapore and people would always want to get a book fast. Moreover, buying books online does not get any cheaper and ordering online from Amazon.com is really expensive. The delivery charge is sometimes higher than the cost of the book itself. It is only when a book cannot be found in Singapore that you would order online.
But the scenario that Tim mentioned is very common in Singapore (I think it happens everywhere). People go to bookstores and spend their whole afternoon browsing through the books, mostly with no intentions of buying. Worst, the books would often end up with have dog-ears, rendering it unsaleable. Magazine sections are the worst hit, but I guess that is a slightly different problem as their business model is different from the book market. In general, the mentality of most people is that a bookstore is just like a library - they are free to browse with no social obligation to buy.
Bookstores are not doing well in this difficult time. A number of big names have closed down. A critical factor to realize in this difficult time is that the consumer dollars is shrinking. With a shrinking budget and an increasing pool of new titles (do a count of the number of .NET titles published by other publishers and see if you can decide on which one to buy), the eventual party to suffer is still the publisher. But on the other end the publisher is also facing financial pressures - stop doing new titles and the revenue will stop. I think O'Reilly's strategy of doing non-overlapping titles (and making that just one title really good) will pay off in the long term and allow it to stay afloat in this tough time.
Wei-Meng Lee
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Re. Intro
2003-05-07 14:54:05 Tim O'Reilly |
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I agree with B&N. And I know that this was part of Steve Riggio's reluctance to add wifi to the B&N stores. (I talked to him about it.)
I also agree that the selection could be better at many bookstores. But that's precisely my point: if you are forced to shop online because of the poor brick and mortar selection, that's where you should buy. But there are a lot of people who spend time in local bookstores looking at books, and then, adding insult to injury, tell the bookseller they plan to buy online for a better price.
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Buy where you shop
2003-05-07 14:48:15 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Just finished this piece on the inside cover of your spring 2003 catalog. You're right on target--for books and for other stuff. I have sold musical instruments on E-bay, but when I want to try one out before I buy it, I go to my local retailer. Then I buy it from him if I buy it at all. "The future we create is [even more] the result of small decions we make every day." --quotable.
David Bolsover
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Buy Where You Shop
2003-05-07 14:46:38 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Greetings, sir! I just got my catalog and read your opening comment and felt I had to respond. It hit a nerve.
I've heard a lot about how "the big bad Internet is hurting brick'n'mortar shops" and from my experience it's mostly the shop's fault.
For me, it's not the prices, it's the awful service and selection.
Let me explain that I live in Orlando, Florida. A reasonably large city, famous for the Mouse, and a place where you'd expect a lot of well-stocked bookstores (and stores in general).
However, this is definately not the case. For instance I have a large Barnes & Noble next door. We're 45 minutes from the Kennedy Space Center, and there's maybe a half dozen space books on the shelf, all of which are glossy no-tech picture books on the Shuttle. We never went to the Moon, I guess.
There are very few non-Microsoft-related computer books... none on Python or Oracle, maybe a copy of the Camel book, and one thin Linux book.
I've asked the owner why, and she just shrugs and says "we have what corporate sends us" - no interest in my suggestions or in improving her store at all.
It's a pain to order anything as they never call to let you know your book arrived, so *you* end up calling repeatedly. Why would I put up with this when I can click a couple of links and have a book miraculously on my doorstep a few days later?
That's what drives me to buy from the Internet. And to stop even browsing in the bookstores. I don't even have the choice of browsing then going home to buy on-line.
Of the dozen bookstores in town, there's one shining exception, which is a Borders near work (a major Oracle Corp. support center) where the manager has obviously realized he'd make major money by stocking lots of computer books. He buys wacky offbeat stuff too, like very technical digital photography books, so that I've spent a lot of time and money there. I make sure to buy all my O'Reilly books there. I've gotten him interested in stocking space books too, and from him I've bought almost every single Apogee book that www.cgpublishing.com makes.
It's not just books, either. I've been an avid motorcyclist for about 20 years, and there are 3 big bike dealerships in town that I frequent. All of them stock from the same Tucker-Rocky catalog, and have the exact same Olympia gloves, Joe Rocket jackets, Tourmaster rainsuits, Shoei helmets, etc hanging from the walls. They complain that people try on their helmets then buy on-line. I respond that the last time I had them order a helmet in my size, it took 2 months to arrive. They don't even stock the lines of jackets & gloves that I would buy, so I end up buying sized apparel from the 'net, which I hate.
They complain that they hate mounting tires that people buy from the 'net, when their prices are double what you'd find online. Why would I buy a rear stand for $319 when I can buy a matched front/rear set of stands online for $100??
I have to buy luggage racks for my bike from Germany, the hard luggage from Italy, and an automatic chain oiler from Scotland, as it's not even available from the dealer at any price. And this is a dealer where I've bought 2 used bikes and a new one, so it's not like I'm an infrequent
customer that doesn't spend money.
I understand that every item in stock counts against the bottom line, but if they don't stock anything, how am I buy it or to find out about it so I can have it ordered?
Heck, I still have a copy of "Managing UUCP and Usenet" that I bought in '89, and I remember I had to drive 190 miles to get it. I remember those dark days... it was like the quest for the Holy Grail, and not the funny Monty Python version either! I remember lusting over a coworker's X11 reference books, and not having anywhere to buy them as the local response was "O'Reilly who? We don't order from people we don't know."
I'm extremely grateful for the selection that the Internet gives me. I'd be totally out of luck without it.
Thanks for letting me vent a little steam. I hope I've shared a little of what it's like to be on the other side of the sales counter. And thank you for your company's excellent line of books that have saved my butt too many times to count.
Gene
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Buy where you shop intro
2003-05-07 14:40:46 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Just read through this, and it made me want to get another opinion on the whole B&N phenomenon, where there are clearly people who go there to read books and lounge around in the chairs for hours, with no intention of buying anything. I often see people in there writing notes as if preparing a report, using it as a library. It is really quite appalling if you think about it. I've got no problem with browsing a book for a few minutes to see if it suits your needs, but this is clearly over the top. When the Computer literacy chain in Silicon Valley got sucked up, I was depressed. I've since discovered San Diego technical Books since I moved to San Diego, and will do what I can to keep them going.
Brian
The path to a desireable destination is often more difficult than the path to stay where you are.
Also, Amazon would get new releases before us--how can we compete with that? (by most publishers)
Also, O'Reilly signed an exclusivity deal for the Magazine "Make" with AMAZON for the first month on a every 2 month periodical. So....we stand in front of our O'Reilly wall as a Team O'Reilly Bookseller and say "Sorry O'Reilly won't sell us Make for another month."
WE ORDERED OURS FROM AMAZON!
What happened to buy where you shop?
Also, the publisher assigns a price and sets the discount so our profit is completetly controlled by the publisher.
Our store, thattechnicalbookstore.com, ran in to that problem at the old (and out of business) San Diego Technical Books (booksmatter.com). Too much inventory to keep the customer happy and not enough of it moving out the door.
We may have to adjust is our *need it now* attitude. We can get most computer books in 2 days so if it isn't in stock why not wait 2 days...
What is fair about all of this and how much responsibility do the publishers have in helping us compete?
My answer is A LOT.
There is very little profit in bookselling unless you have the capital to maintain inventory and warehouses like the chains do.
As the daughter of a technical bookstore owner it is more than just the browsing or the pricing. It is our family's survival and there is nothing more in the world that we want than a store full of inventory and customers but with the economy how it is and the publisher's passive complicity....